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I need to hear your Suggestion/Opinion.

c c# c++ ide

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10 replies to this topic

#1 ADHS

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 03:50 AM

Hello to everybody.

As i am comiing from Delphi to C++ i am testing the
most of the known packages related to C++ such as
RAD XE7, Visual Studio 2013, Code::Blocks, Dev-Cpp
hopping to find the most convinient programming IDE
to my expectations before i conclude to the assembly
programming that lucks of an automate visuall editor
such Visual Studio or XE7 C++ Builder for example.
Even if i conclude to assembly i have to be able to read
and understand all the rellated documendation that comes
for the processors as all examples are written bassically in
C# including C++ and some traces of Assembly.

For my testings till now:
What was impressed me was the size of the independent
Release executable that is not justify 1.5 or 3.9 Megabytes
in size with just a Form, a RichEdit, 2 Buttons and two lines
in the RichEdit1, that outputs a Unicode text with 16 letters
and a Unicode char in Greek.
As Delphi is so close to C/C#/C++ i am looking forward to
hear any of your suggestions/opinions that may guide me
to the most propper C programming enviroment that will
offer to me a true size of my code as a finall and totaly
independent executable programm that will run in any of
windows version without the need of an external .NET
version or a *.bpl or a *.dll file.

ADHS


Edited by ADHS, 14 January 2015 - 04:00 AM.


#2 WingedPanther73

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 05:05 AM

It's going to depend A LOT on the GUI library you choose. Visual Studio obviously uses Windows components, and can link to .NET with Managed C++. RAD XE7 is going to use VCL libraries (statically or dynamically linked). QT gives you yet another option, with its own IDE, libraries, etc. wxWidgets gives you another option. Etc, etc, etc.

 

In the world of C++, the libraries you will be using strongly imply the IDE you'll use, and the associated features.


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#3 jasonalien

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 06:42 AM

If you are fan of .NET products. I can suggest Visual Studio. If you are using Unix/Linux environment I would go with gcc with Netbeans or Eclipse. If you are using Windows I might try CodeBlocks.



#4 BlackRabbit

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 07:29 PM

I agree with JasonAlien. In addition, pre .NET visual studio was pretty good about .exe sizes too. Libraries? as WP pointed out you'll be always using them, the deal is how are you using them; packed into your exe or required to be present in the system



#5 ADHS

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 05:56 AM

WingedPanther, jasonalien, BlackRabbit,
thank you very much for your replies guys.

jasonalien, BlackRabbit,
as for the .NET option, honestly, is not my goal.
Basically i dont want to be or become dependant
to compiler or linker dependencies. Yes, runtime
libraries offer a small code but once you try to run
it in another (pure-vanila installed system) there
comes the missing of this library or this dll etc.
It happens to me to install drivers for Saitek sticks
and the requirements were >NET ver 2.0 in Win 7.

A 10.750 Kb exe becomes 1.5 or 3.9 MBytes once
i shut off the compiler/linker dependencies to runtime
present libraries in my system by the visual enviroment.
So you can programming in a visual enviroment
but the result is not that we all see a satisfied small exe.

A hudge amount of links to system libraries that exists in

our systems, is minimizing our final exe but this exe is not independent

at all as it lucks a lot of stuff. And what if i
programm for an IPAD or a Mobile ? There Size matters!

WingedPanther,
sure there are more options or custom procedures-
ways to fix and setup even VS. EXTERN f.e. will
make a significant difference and the programmig
point of view of everyone will do the difference.
Custom routines even libraries will do but what's
the point to do it once there is a lisence that overlaps
your personal efforts ? Once i used Amiga's onchip
routines and i could have a fully 256 K functional exe.

In windows, now, while is much more simple, it has

become too complicated and i am looking for guidance

for my decision: Programming or not ? Sorry but i think

its so funny to think 1st like a manager of myself instead

of a programmer full of dreams and imagination !!!


Edited by ADHS, 15 January 2015 - 06:10 AM.


#6 WingedPanther73

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 06:59 AM

wxWidgets, and the associated tools meant to support it, may be your answer. wxWidgets uses native widgets wherever possible, so the result is it uses OS-provided dll's. With that said, wxWidgets is advertised as a "code once, compile for each platform, you're done", but that isn't quite the reality from my experience. It turns out that the corresponding widget on various systems tend to have slightly different heights, widths, etc. So if you develop on a system with "short" widgets, they'll look funny when compiled against a system with "tall" widgets, and vice versa. So you'll have smaller .exe's, but more work for your programmers to get everything looking great, or you'll have to create all widgets in code and let system defaults kick in.

 

As a side note, the installer for the product my company (I'm an employee, not owner) is 282 MB. The install size is around 1.2GB. This is using Delphi distributing dependencies as .bpl files. Of course, this is a group of 56 programs and a LOT of third-party libraries. Since this is an enterprise level product, our customers accept this as their reality. What counts as an acceptable file size will depend A LOT on what the program is doing. Some opensource video games have 400MB - 1GB downloads. LibreOffice's installer is almost 200MB, and I've never once thought to complain about it.

 

You're right, size matters, but you also have to look at what your product is doing, who the customer base is, etc. I have AndrOpen Office installed on my tablet, and that's a 219MB install. Pretty big, but it does a LOT. Heck, Clash of Clans is 58MB. When you're talking about trying to get your files down to KB sizes, I really have to wonder what you're trying to create.


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#7 BlackRabbit

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 07:55 AM

About mobile or IPADs, you'll need a totally different set of compiler settings.

Working on mobile is a different world, where c++ is not even near to be the dominant language, or even the best  suited one.

 

Programing for mobile, is learning mobile first, then see if you can do what you want, in the language you want. Don't expect a c++ hello world to be exported to mobile by your IDE...



#8 ADHS

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 07:12 AM

WingedPanther:

In your case, this is indeed a large package, sure i can imagine, with specific or custom modifications

for something custom or more specific. As for games, graphics related files (as LOD's) usually occupies

the most space (including sound files) in a game installation. I am focusing in the core-management

and it's final size of a programm that manipulates all the rellated visual file so can't compare or take

under consideraion the size of the related files that a programm uses.

My point is around the most simplest way of programming in C (as it was some years before) by

producing an .exe, that it will be independent to run in Windows without any of Microsoft policy-

depentendcy-think tank setup. OK, they have setup a "programming platform" with the most posibilities

but i wont run if Bill Gates says so to me.

I think that new computer OSes have to appear for public and free usage. (My point).

 

BlackRabbit

This is why i am asking for opinions as i am looking for a flexible programming setup or visul plaform

to use. OK, i started on PC but now, today, everything is so "mobile" and "portable" that reminds me

the era that i bought a 3.5 MB hard disk for my PC and i was happy for the extra space that i could use!

If not C programming language fits to my expectations, what will you suggest me to use instead ?

 

Again, thank you for your time and for you ansers,

ADHS (Alexandros)

 

PS:

I have an attachement example that impresses me and expresses the pleasure of what i want to feel

as an independent programmer. It's a fully operational and independent Rich Edit programm written

in asssembly programming language. I want to have that total flexibility, that total independence instead

of an .exe full of non-sence in MBytes linked with hidden headlines of copyright trash in there. Even if

we all buy such a programming package just to enjoy a visual enviroment that is supposed to save us

a lot of typing and from extra time, we all gonna be under a strict copyright that will undertake our own

thinking of programming and our efforts

Attached Files



#9 BlackRabbit

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 02:49 PM

That's true, the future is now, and you won't like.

Today coders build over things that were built, over built things. No more reinventing the wheel as it used to be.

 

Today, it's not "mobile", it's plain real mobile, in mobile is where people is, ergo where bizz goes. And by mobile I mean internet and web-browsers too.

 

Today, there's no synthesis. Either you program for specific hardware or O.S, or you work on frameworks, libraries, engines, and virtual machines.

 

There's no one for all language, much less a compiler.


Edited by BlackRabbit, 16 January 2015 - 02:49 PM.


#10 ADHS

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Posted 17 January 2015 - 07:28 AM

BlackRabbit
That's true, the future is now, and you won't like.

 

... but i can change it. The Planet Earth is too small for a Greek like me. :biggrin:

Need another planet just with H2O.


Edited by ADHS, 17 January 2015 - 07:28 AM.


#11 sscresults2015

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 04:51 AM

According to me .NET visual studio is the Best






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