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Windows 8 metro


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30 replies to this topic

#13 Tonchi

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 11:30 AM

greg I saw somewhere on some forum that you can download "Start installer" and people said it is working well. Now they have Windows 7 Start in Windows 8.
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#14 gregwarner

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 11:51 AM

greg I saw somewhere on some forum that you can download "Start installer" and people said it is working well. Now they have Windows 7 Start in Windows 8.


Good to know. Thanks for the tip. Do you happen to know if that's an official Microsoft download or 3rd party?

Still, I wonder how difficult it would have been for Microsoft to add this as an option in the Display settings, similar to the "Classic Start Menu" option that already exists in Win7, as opposed to leaving it to an entirely different installation altogether.
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#15 Tonchi

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 12:21 PM

As far as I know it is 3rd party app. I didn't found on google any Microsoft installation for that (I am not using Start button on Win8).
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#16 Vaielab

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 01:10 PM

In my opinion, it's very unintuitive, and reveals that Microsoft didn't do a lot of market research before they implemented that "feature".


I don't think it's only "that" new features where they don't do a lots of research. Have you tried the new (2007) office with ... I don't know how they call it, but the way they replace the good old menu with new kind of sub-form and once again, big buttons?

I read a lots of uix reports about this, and people hate using it.
But since it's microsoft, a lots of other compagny think they have to do the same, and mindlessly do it.
The same thing with the metro interface and avg. Why would I want metro interface on avg when I'm on windows 7?
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#17 Tonchi

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 01:44 PM

One day Microsoft will stop creating updates for Windows 7 and new drivers will die for them. And you must understand that if they want to create multiplatform operating system they must do to work on other technologies like tablet PC. Soon mouse clicking interface will not be so popular, people will switch to touch technology. So they must have touching operating system.
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#18 gregwarner

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 01:45 PM

I don't think it's only "that" new features where they don't do a lots of research. Have you tried the new (2007) office with ... I don't know how they call it, but the way they replace the good old menu with new kind of sub-form and once again, big buttons?


Are you talking about the Ribbon? (Oh, boy... I'm about to open up a huge can of worms!)

I think the Ribbon looks like a cow ate all the menu items and then threw them all up onto a toolbar. I'm serious, there's almost no organization at all.

My biggest complaint is their use of varying sizes and shapes across what should be a uniform area. I was never much of a fan of toolbars, opting to use the menus instead, however, the MS Office 2003 and prior toolbars were acceptable, because most of the buttons were all uniform in size, and aligned horizontally with each other. In the Ribbon, you've got buttons that are all different sizes (Example: cut, copy, and paste), non-aligned buttons all over the place, and only a semblance of organization. It makes it difficult for me to find what I'm looking for, and, with the absence of the menu, forces me to interrupt my workflow and delay myself while I hunt for the feature I require.

I'm not saying they should never change the interface. I'm not against change. All I'm saying is, us older users will be used to seeing and using things the way they were, and so an option should be made to retain the older layout and function. Make the new layout the default. That's fine by me. But allow me to change it back to something I can use more quickly.

Business people and professionals don't always have the time to learn new systems, especially new systems which don't introduce any new functionality, but rather merely re-arrange the functionality that was already there. In the business world, time is money, and wasted time on trivial matters such as layout means wasted money. It doesn't have to look pretty. It just has to get the job done, and quickly.

As a whole, the computer industry isn't afraid of legacy support. We retain legacy compatibility in our hardware for years past the point where the obsolete technology is being used. Why? Because some businesses still use it, and to remove legacy support would be detrimental to that business. Legacy support for older systems is something businesses look for when considering newer technologies. They want to be sure they won't be up a creek when the next update hits.

That's all I'm saying. I've got a legacy mentality when it comes to human-computer interaction. I like things in nicely organized, hierarchical categories. I like flyout menus, lists, tables, and trees. Why? Because that's how I was trained. I make no argument about training the newer generation to use the random, differing sized, tile-based, cow vomitted, half-hearted attempt at organization interfaces that are now being developed. That's how the next generation will grow up using computers, and that's fine. But in another 20 years, when MS comes out with the next big change in its GUI, it will be this younger tile-based generation crying foul as I am now. :)
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#19 Tonchi

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 01:50 PM

Technology is eating us. That's for sure.
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#20 Vaielab

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 01:59 PM

Yes the ribbon (I only remembered the french word for it: ruban... close enouph)

Gregwarner, you remember remind me of a article I read about ubuntu's unity. About how changing is good, but they should leave the options to come back, and in the professional world, we don't have time to always get used to new interface, and everything changing when the only purpose is to be different from before.

We are talking about microsoft here, but they are not the only one.
Linux too.
Gnome3, that I really hate, with the side bar that you almost can't move, still big icone (stop being big!). And my dear old alt+f2 command, I really love this command (on linux), I can launch everything. But in gnome3, it has to have a animation to open the menu, preloaded application have to load (cpu time, so my computer can lag), than each time I type a letter, everything change with a nice animation (still more cpu time), and in the end, I can't use the real software name (filename), I have use the user friendly name to find what I'm used to type for years now.
Unity, everything has to move all the time, I want to hit my screen each time I give unity one last try.

And now, unity want to remove completly the menu in software. You will have to enter a command (probably windows key) than type what you are looking for. While you are typing a list of options will appear, but damn, this is aweful. Let's do a speed test, and see how long it take me to find a command with a menu vs finding it when I don't know the name and I have to type it!


But like you say, the only reason we are like that, is because we were trained in this interface. Kids will be trained in a other interface and probably have the same problems one day... the only solution... go out the grid do not update anything, or create your own OS just like I want
Yeah, that would be cool.
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#21 WingedPanther73

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 03:52 PM

When I saw videos of the new interface, my immediate response was "Yuck!". I don't expect it to have changed. When using a desktop, I want a desktop interface.
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#22 Tonchi

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 04:05 PM

When I saw videos of the new interface, my immediate response was "Yuck!". I don't expect it to have changed. When using a desktop, I want a desktop interface.

But there still is desktop interface. Start has only changed. Windows 8 is still using WinNT even if primariy core is WinRT.
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#23 gregwarner

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 05:30 AM

And now, unity want to remove completly the menu in software. You will have to enter a command (probably windows key) than type what you are looking for. While you are typing a list of options will appear, but damn, this is aweful. Let's do a speed test, and see how long it take me to find a command with a menu vs finding it when I don't know the name and I have to type it!


Exactly. I want to take a 'browsing' approach--that is, I want to skim down the list of menu options to see what's available to me. I don't always have the correct name of what I'm looking for on the tip of my tongue. Sometimes 'window shopping' is the best way to find what you want, before you even know what it is that you want!

It's similar to the difference between Google Video and YouTube. In the early days of YouTube, it was its own separate company--it wasn't a part of Google yet. YouTube launched this video sharing site, and was doing extremely well, so Google launched a competing product. Google Video quickly fell to the superiority of YouTube. The reason why? Google, in an attempt to keep everything clean and white (like their home page), created a landing page much like your new command invocation system that you hate so much. It merely presented you with a search box and you would type whatever you were looking for.

This method is absolutely great for internet search. Google wants to eliminate the clutter. The mentality goes something like this: Why should the user be presented with a dozen different things on the screen that he doesn't want, and only one thing that he actually does want?

So they clean up the interface. They eliminate everything and just give you a text box where you can search for only what you want. It works great, in theory.

But when it came to YouTube/Google Video, people didn't know what they wanted! When you go to YouTube, how often is it to watch one video which you've picked beforehand? Not often. Usually, it's to search for a subject, or a theme, or just to see what's popular. And when you get there, you see suggestions of other videos to watch--some related, some not. It doesn't matter, because you end up watching them all, and you have a higher level of enjoyment, and YouTube has presented more ads to you in the process, so it's a win-win for both sides.

That's why YouTube won over Google Video. Google Video was very weak on this "browsing" approach from the beginning, and as a result, people flocked over to YouTube. So, with a failing product, Google bought YouTube, and the rest is history.

But the lesson should still be there--people don't always know exactly what they want. Also, people don't always like to jump right to where they want to be. Sometimes, it's the wandering process that eventually takes us there that ends up being the most rewarding. Scanning through a list of menu options while searching for one in particular might reveal to you the availability of several more that you never knew existed. This is impossible in a purely search-based interface.

In other words: Don't change a good thing.
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#24 roillinpr

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 06:30 PM

Since I am student I have access on full version of Windows 8 that will be presented next month (via Dreamspark). I am using Windows 8 for a one week and I am impresed. First of all it is very fast. There is not slow like Windows 7 when you press Start button and type something that you want search. Sometimes I have to wait for a whole minute to get search result. But when I am searching something on Windows 8 it show me the result in one second. That is a big change. Also I get bored with Windows 7 and this Metro Style GUI is very good for my eyes. The most impresive thing is Internet Explorer which is very very very fast, but I don't know how good it is for web developers since I am not web developer. Now, for me, it is better than Chrome or Mozilla (it is hard to believe but it is true). I have also tested a new Visual Studio 2012 (also a full version) and it is very very good. There is a lot of new features that is helping me in developing desktop application (I have now started to learn Metro Style development). Task manager is very good. A lot of real time graphs that shows you performance of RAM memory, WLAN, and other stuffs. For the end even if there is still no bluetooth driver for my laptop (HP Probook 4730s) I am very happy with Windows 8 and for me it is better than Windows 7.


Thanks for letting us know some previews of it. Windows 7 is pretty fast for me, and if you are telling Windows 8 is even more faster, I am so amazed and will surely be blown away by the speed. I am waiting now.
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