11 replies to this topic

[PsychoCoder]

Not too long ago I was involved in a discussion on people stealing code in school, and I thought it would be a good thing to discuss here. There's a new generation of coders coming into the industry, what has been coined the Copy & Paste Programmer . These are the people who go from forum to forum online looking for code for their assignments, then change a couple (if any at all) words and turn it in as their own, and with more technology comes more of them.

So many <em>youngsters</em> decide to come into the programming world because they think it's going to be some sort of cakewalk, they dont stop to think of the time and effort it takes to become very good at what we do. In all online communities there are many of use who have been doing this a very long time, and we didn't reach where we're at now without a lot of work and effort (not to mention many days of long hours, normally with low pay). The Copy & Paste coder has some sense of entitlement, that things should just be handed to them with little or no effort on their part.

Being a programmer isn't a profession like being a mechanic or surgeon, it's not like you can do a Google search and download someone's rebuilt engine or a surgeons heart transplant surgery. We're dealing with something that can be searched, found and then subsequently stolen by someone and turned in as their homework. A surgeon cannot just head over to Bing or Google during a surgery, yet these <em>fake</em> programmers can (and do) do this all day long at both school and at real jobs.

These kind of coders (and I use the term lightly) make it increasingly harder and harder for those who actually studied and did their work in school to find real programming jobs because they bluff their way through school and normally work for far less than an experienced programmer who worked to get where they're at.

Under normal circumstances the copy & paste code will easily be caught by most employers, and most employers these days can tell the difference between someone who's bluffing their way through and those who actually know what they're talking about, but it does happen where honest, hard working programmers lose out to one of these copy & paste coders simply because they'll normally work cheaper.

I dont know the number of times I'll be searching for something and go to a site and see <strong>my code</strong>, the code I worked to write to solve a problem, being posted by someone else claiming it to be their own. They say that imitation is the best form of flattery, but I dont completely buy this way of thinking. Believe it or not there is a big difference between imitation and being ripped off, and these copy & paste coders are nothing but crooks.

[zeroradius]

The sad thing is I had a professor in Uni that urged us to copy other peoples code. I might not be a good programmer myself but I have never taken other peoples code (with the exception of a pagination script when I was running out of time on a project, in that case I documented it and told my professor were it came from and why I had used it, saying as the rest of the forum I had made from scratch was working he was ok with it.). I don't know, this kind of goes with your thread on piracy, it seems more and more people just want things handed to them.

[BlaineSch]

If it's open source I don't see a problem using their code as long as it's intended for reuse. It would save time and money.

I had a teacher who always said using libraries is great, as long as you know how to code it yourself if you needed to.

[PsychoCoder]

BlaineSch I think you missed the point. I have no problem with open source code, as long as the student notes that they didn't write it and can prove they do know how it works and what it does. The point I'm getting to are the growing number of students who go from forum to forum getting people to do their homework for them, getting code, putting it together then claiming it as their own. I have no problem with libraries, in fact a good programmer knows it's best to use the tools available to them (I'm a C# developer and I dont reinvent the wheel every time I code something), but that's entirely different than copy & pasting your way through school, then getting into the real world and stealing a job from someone who actually did their work through school and actually knows what they're doing.

I've seen it first hand, someone claiming to be a programmer, had good marks in school, graduated and everything looked in order. They were willing to work cheaper than the other person interviewing and were ultimately given the job. A week or two into it we could tell this person had no idea what they were doing, that they had cheated their way through their degree, and after two weeks we had to let them go. So this copy & paste coder took a job from another candidate because they were able to talk the talk but couldn't walk the walk because they knew nothing.

[BlaineSch]

The guy who cheats his way through anything and does not really know what he's doing probably won't get far anyways. After a few years his resume will look like he's had 10 jobs all lasting a few weeks. I find it hard to find a job that does not require experience which is why I'm glad I took an internship a few years ago and have plenty of fully made programs I can show off.

[WingedPanther]

The difference between a programmer and a copy/paster is one thing: problem solving skills.

[stevie754]

I am currently on my placement year, and in the company I am working my boss has actually came up to me and said if you can't solve something Google it or look at other peoples code to work out how it is done. I have never been a copy paster there are many people in my year that are and have managed to bluff there way into placements but now that they have got them they are finding it very hard to stay above the water.

I will use other peoples code as reference if I do ever hit a wall but I will make sure I understand it and will edit it to fit my needs, I don't think you could ever learn buy just posting your assignment/task on a forum and getting someone to do it all for you. Nothing beats practise.

[gregwarner]

WingedPanther said:

The difference between a programmer and a copy/paster is one thing: problem solving skills.

WingedPather said it most elegantly.

A real programmer gets hired because a company has a need for the development of a new project--some software that hasn't been done before. No one spends resources developing something that's already been done. Because of that, a copy & paste programmer will never get one of these jobs because there is literally nothing to copy/paste. Breaking new ground in programming will always assure that copy/paste coders will stay where they belong--in the back row of the class room sleeping. (If they even bothered to show up to class that day.)

[bbqroast]

I don't like these "copiers" either, I am fine with people who use libraries through.
When I do write code I always say what libraries I use... After all when I use stuff EVERYONE MUST USE IT!!! or no one should use it at all, and that means I'll say I used 'em (if its the later I'll probably end up getting a polite letter to remove the reference :) ).
I had a friend who either bluffed or copied. He said he knew HTML so I asked him how to link to pages. He spent about 10 minutes explaining random codes:
"urheuihgbfndiuhgfuidhfnuefnfdjjdff".

Oh, has anyone heard of FlightSIM Pro? Apparently its just Flight Gear a open source program re branded and sold for money.
That's why I don't like Open Source, people just rip the entire thing off, oftentimes scamming people into buying their version when they could have got it for free...

[Upstream]

Don't you get it? Everybody wart’s to be a manager, not a programmer. That's only temporary!

[bbqroast]

"wart's" is that some new phrase I have yet to hear of (or an old one for that matter).
I almost copied and pasted, I ended up having to read a webpage in a box about the width of a rubber's length and have code blocks in about twice that, oh yeah and keep some grips on what are maths teacher was saying, the joys of laptops ehy?

[Upstream]

:rules: Thank you for that. Maybe you should check the rest of the forum just to be sure? :)