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Socialism


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#13 jwxie518

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Posted 17 April 2009 - 05:19 PM

Let me tell you what i think jordan & aereshea
i tend to not to talk about politics or society at all because people have own stories
USA is no different from anywhere
but, universal health care, sounds like a plan, but where can we get the money?
first of all, medical expense, it's freakin' high son

in USA, are you kidding me? even the city fire department ambulance charge you for $800 dollars?
in HK, we don't charge ambulance / emergency because IT'S FREAKIN EMERGENCY
now i don't blame this, maybe this is how the western merdical field makes money?
and i know, there are different types of MD and doctors. some stay in the hostipal
there are doctors are from other places, let say if you live in long island, you have your own clinic, and you are in a contract with a hosptial, they want you at 3am you have to be there 3am
maybe this is quite different from the HK system
we have doctors in the hospital, every doctors, except for those "professors"

now, universal health care is a great thing - but again, money, right?
maybe we should first ask ourselves a question: why can't people afford the most basic insurance plan in USA? is it because of the insurance fee? I don't know how much does it charge but from state to state, fee is different, laws are different
just in the case about emergency - you charge people 800 bucks!
dude, this is mad. i don't have any source on other nations, but USA is going mad with this
medical charge is #1 high in USA, education is #2, and then law, that sounds like a joke to you? law is #3? LOL this is what i learned in history class last year - kidding me....

in china too, too many private hositpal, the public hosptials are terrible. the charges are high, people complain about it, the government has to do something, in fact they are drafting a new plan for the medical regulation and managment on the issue
but forget about china now

why can't people afford little thing?
1. greedy people - business
2. money
3. it's just money

look at this question: why don't we just give condoms to all those HIV and AIDS carriers in Africa? why do we just give them food and drugs?

simple answer: money. you will be frighten at this point because this is the truth.
those poor countries, the governments don't make any income at all. they made money from the drug businesses. drug businesses want to make more people - so instead of giving out condom to everyone there, HIV must continue to spread - get more, so more people will buy those HIV antibodies and drugs to reduce the pain.

we waste millions of crops every year - why don't we just give them to the poor people?
why do the farmers burn them? because USA federal government doesn't have the money to buy them - why pay for those poor people?
Okay, not even for your own people? what a waste too..

the world is going mad - with money money money and more money
but well, this is the reality - everything comes with a price. you live here, you have to pay for your living.
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#14 WingedPanther73

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 12:34 PM

One thought related to this:

In Canada, who do you sue if a doctor makes a mistake, and how much can you win? In the US, it varies from state to state. The more you can win, the higher the doctor's malpractice insurance premiums. The higher the premiums, the higher the rates the doctor charges the patient.

Doctors are competing with each other for customers, so one thing to consider is what costs are the doctors incurring? It's amazing how a couple laws can drastically change the cost of being in business.
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#15 Aereshaa

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 03:06 PM

Jeez come on people. Whether Universal Health Care works is not a valid question. Take a trip to Canada, Japan, Germany, or Spain. Ask someone there whether he thinks the system is working. The answer is yes, it works. The point of this system is that I take care of you, you take care of me. Give and take, cooperation, do unto others, the golden rule. This system is based on the highest moral virtue, and institutionalized in a way that reinforces equality, the basis of democracy.

Oh, did you forget that last fact: "Equality is the basis of democracy?" Hmm?
"... We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..."
That is in the very first definition of your country's philosophy.

EDIT:
In jwxie518's post he makes an excellent point: When people are sued, even if they are innocent, they still have to pay to get a good lawyer. So the malicious suer still causes hardship. I would support, in my own country and in all others, a Universal Legal Aid program, that is, 'socializing' as Americans put it, and 'democratizing' as I call it, the legal system.
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#16 jwxie518

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 03:22 PM

Aereshaa, I like UHC (HK doesn't have it, but we have a very very good public health system, public hospital)
but I always believe, the US government should look into the possibility to make the medical charge less
look, drug business is #1 most profitable in USA, no doubt, everyone knows this...

the debate is what is more important to the government now? stablizie the economy as much as possible, reduce the inflation if there any, reduce debts or UHC when people are used to the current living, without health care?

this is what i see, and this is what everyone see
I am still 17, so my personal insurance is low - coverage by the state

and not everyone is equal - just remember freedom of speech doesn't mean 100% freedom
equalitiy is not 100% equal
as you see, if we are all equal, there is no classes

however, there is - this is why socialism and communism never works so well (don't even bother to debate about China why the economy is growing up, but as a Chinese I can tell you, it's failling in a way).

Would you please tell me more about CANDA? how the states in canada work?
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#17 Aereshaa

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 04:23 PM

Okay, sure. I'll give you an example. In Canada, when I broke my leg skiing last year, I was taken in an ambulance to the Toronto Hospital for Sick Children. First thing they did was hook me up to a flow of painkillers, and then they got me into the X-ray to check my bones. As my bone was not displaced, I did not require operation, so they gave me a room. Note that all of this was with zero waiting time. I stayed in the hospital for a week, and then I went home and got a special anti- bedsores water bed that very day. After three weeks I went back to the hospital and got another set of X-rays, similarly with no waiting time. After that I was given a wheelchair and crutches, and after two more weeks I was able to walk on my own again.
So there's my own experience of the Canadian health care system. Seems like it's pretty darn good to me. I never paid a cent during the entire time either.
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#18 jwxie518

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 04:41 PM

Does the states operate the same as the states in USA?

i really don't know much about politics here you know...
I used to wonder why it takes so long for me to get a treatment
unless you are in a BIG emergency, other cases you have to wait hours just to get to see a doctor, sometime you don't even get to see a M.D
this is what people complain, as an immigrant

maybe because the situation i said
hosptial don't hire on-site doctors , not a lot
most doctors are contract-doctors, they have their own clinics,
cuz i remembered this is what my father told me
he had an emergency with his eyes
and he waited hours just to have someone take care of them
then another two hours, a real MD comes to treat him....
that MD, came from Long Island, 3:00AM....
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#19 Guest_Jordan_*

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 04:49 PM

You wouldn't pay anything, being so young. However, they are getting paid somehow and I bet it comes from no other than you mother and fathers salary. Cleverly disguised as....taxes. This is one reason our taxes are lower than yours.
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#20 jwxie518

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 06:50 PM

you know after all these replies
i am very confuse on lots of things
LOL
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#21 WingedPanther73

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 04:20 AM

I think there is a very simple way to deal with lawsuits without providing free legal aid: The loser pays the legal costs of everyone (including court fees). Currently, a lot of lawyers can advertise "You don't pay unless you win!" That would change to "You don't pay unless you lose!" Can you imagine suing McDonalds over coffee being *gasp* hot if you were going to have to pay both your lawyerr and theirs if you lost?

I think following that up with the ability to sue your own lawyer if he/she fails to warn you that you are likely to lose would make a LOT of stupid lawsuits disappear.
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#22 Aereshaa

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 08:32 AM

@ jordan
Exactly my point. Our taxes are as percentages, so even if my mother and father were unemployed or I was living on my own, I 'still' wouldn't pay anything up front. Everyone pays what they can afford this way, and everyone is equal in our wonderfully just society.
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#23 Guest_Jordan_*

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 08:58 AM

In Germany they pay 40% of their income to taxes to pay for these socialist "equal" items. I pay a mere 13% here. If we both made $100,000 per year that would mean you pay $40,000 in taxes (enough to buy two cars) while I would pay only $13,000. In the US, I'd probably get a large chunk of that back for being married and paying house interest reducing my overall tax to around 8%. I prefer the idea of me working for my own rather than me working for some lazy bum that refuses to work. A lazy bum should be just that, a lazy bum, not living well in a hotel room I pay for.

Socialism is a step before communism and communism does not work. Evolution and/or your god did not create all man equal so there is no reason that the government should enforce everyone to be equal.
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#24 WingedPanther73

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 09:14 AM

One of the things that is most frequently misunderstood is the phrase "all men are created equal". That does not mean all people are created with equal ability, skill, talent, etc. It means all people have equal intrinsic value as people. However, that also means people are equally able to choose unwisely for themselves.

People need to be careful about throwing the term around incorrectly. It's too easy to do, and just leads to confusion.
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