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AI Endeavor

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#1 JiKeidan

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Posted 25 January 2009 - 09:33 AM

I'm looking for a few serious programmers to get together every now and then and partake in a rather long commitment. I have been thinking of some AI ideas, and though it's hilarious to many that this thread even exists, I am serious. I can't promise success, but I can at least provide another brain for anyone in a similar situation to my own, who has ever been interested in partaking in such a project.

The Scoop:
Personally I am already beginning on the notion that computers can, and with enough patience and determination, will, potentially contain the dynamics that make up the ever so popular "thought process". To demonstrate and have a well enough starting point, I have, to a somewhat simple degree, broken down this process in the linguistics department that is the fundamental to any learning, which is, of course, what we want our little program to eventually do ^.^

Not easy is an understatement, but even today, after decades of legal manipulation and amending, an air-tight legal system, comprised of men and women of all intellects and stupidities, can still be crawled through and squirmed through in order to obtain an outlandish goal. Certainly computers, that which is created after man in the first place, can be built upon and manipulated in such a way that it begins to self-realize... We are but a creation of SOME thing... cells, aliens, god, beavers, or bears... and thus we are endowed with the ability in ourselves to create others. Lets do it.

This is hopefully the beginning of something extremely revolutionary, and if not that... then at least satisfying of my own life's ambitions.

Welcome one, welcome all.

To begin:
I mentioned that I had begun to break down the dynamics of our language, that is english, and i'll say right now... other languages welcome, LATER. Lol I have to work with what i can understand, and then when we can incorperate other linguisitcs, we shal.
brainstorming, not a code... as such it mimics php as that is the simplest code for me to brainstorm in.... for those not familiar with php, it's just like C or C++, all variable types are declared using $var=""; $var; $ being the variable identifier... the following are THOUGHTS.. individual processes of MY thought dynamic... jump in at any point.


Alert($incomingAttention,$sender,$subjectMatter);

Interpret($context, $mood, $priority);

Log($memoryTYPE[hostile][friendly][secret][broadcast][etc...], $action, $subjectmatter);

Response($intent, $authority, $subjectmatter, $etc......);

This is kind of the thought I'm runnin on for now... atm I am locating a database of the english language as complete as possible...
I am considering scanning the database and sorting it according to subject matters for quick reference... I'm trying to mimic the hierarchical structure of the human brain.. so think hard folks... don't be afraid to throw in even the most rediculous of ideas, we can all really build something here.
Also considering deriving a "self-programming" interpretation structure of definitions of words in the english language... as in DEFINITION OF: yell: to speak in a greater than calm manner. [as a stack though; store VERB YELL: speak > mood(rational)] DEFINITION OF: speak: hard-written as output of TYPE(text,audio, etc); unload stack Speak(yell(), $subjectmatter);

and ok... that's kind of where i'm at... .thoughts continuing... please don't be afraid to participate, even just 1 stupid idea posted one time could potentially, eventually, be used. Thanks in advance.

Edited by WingedPanther, 25 January 2009 - 10:44 AM.
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#2 WingedPanther73

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Posted 25 January 2009 - 10:47 AM

I know there are a lot of doctoral theses available for creating true AI. It sounds, however, like you're creating a language analysis tool as the first step.
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#3 JiKeidan

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Posted 25 January 2009 - 10:55 AM

yah, but i'm kind of derriving the whole thing from the beginning as I want to understand the construction of this thing entirely.
and yah, language analysis is where i'm heading. i'm treating the program as though it's a child, and i'm building it's cognative skillz... as in the ever-so wonderful EGO, sense of I ya?... perhaps it'll be a simple mask of a drone robot... but as always in comparison, we are no different o.O

whew, but there's so many grammar rules and interpretation, and definitions... i don't know if i have a steady idea in motion just yet.... i mean how do you tell a computer to understand the meanings of words... how do you transform a definition into a block of code.... and when do those blocks of code within blocks of code (definitions of definitions) end?.... or where do they begin... start with I and work outwards and perhaps you develop that which i just spoke of in reverse?...

Ok i have been thinking, and i think i will first build a program that will ask the meanings of words and allow an input period for me to program their meanings or somethin o.O

Edited by WingedPanther, 25 January 2009 - 04:55 PM.
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#4 RoboticForest

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 01:08 AM

Hmm... I was speaking with someone once about this, and his company was trying to design a system that "understood" English. Being so many years ago I can barely remember anything we talked about, but the idea they were working with was, break English down into a simpler language of a sort.

Let me think for a moment...

Some of the largest issues they ran into was determining the speaker, and context.

'I am at home" could be broken down a number of ways. "I" could be the user typing to the computer, or the computer talking to the user. "I am" refers to I's current state of being, and "at" modifies that by implying location. I exists at the location of home. I is also the subject being talked about, whoever I is.

The sentence in the end looks vaguely like this:
"Subject exists at location"

The computer views the sentence in this manner, but has an understanding of what subject and location are, as well as what existence, and existence in various ways is.

I don't really remember how they planned on accomplishing any of that, but the basic underlying idea was to break English into a base language of ideas and concepts.
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#5 Phoenixz

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 02:00 AM

From oxford dictionary site.

The dictionary has 140,000 words, however English is composed of many different languages, so that'll make it really difficult, since alot of our words are latin, germanic, french, nor..uh..something.

I really like the idea though, and would be happy to help in any way I could.
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#6 JiKeidan

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 03:17 AM

i like the thought robotic, it's an excellent train, one that i plan to check out... I am strongly considering the idea of converting sentence strings into programmable code... and if the computer i able to process the string as code once translated, wonderful "Yes, I can do this master", and if not, then simply "can't" ?

and thank you, phoenix, as well for the support. Any ideas, this is a forum for ideas to be puked out and if it pleases, then never viewed again... so feel free to even post an idea guys, then delete it if u like... it'll still be sent to my email as text ;) For you big corperate espionage investors... that's a great trick if you wanna divulge any ethically and morally wrong secrets ^.^

Thanks everyone!
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#7 WingedPanther73

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 04:06 AM

I suspect that what you are doing is similar to the first stages of a translation program. Have you done much reading on interpreting language, language translation, etc?
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#8 JiKeidan

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 06:02 PM

Hmm, i think a little self-explination is in order.

My name is dan, i'm 22 and currently live in KY. I've been here for a little over a year now and i moved from FL where i lived for 8 years.... prior to that, i was in 12 different areas within 12 years and we won't go there.

Beginning at age 12, I picked up a book called HTML 4 for dummies ^.^ YAY~4~dum~dum! -.- Taught myself HTML, then shortly later javascript... by now of course I'm a couple years later, and I enroll in a VB class in highschool, which was entertaining, mostly because of my professor i suppose, good guy... techi at heart kinda guy, with a sense of humor. Always a good find.
Anyhow, the following year I learn C++ with a different teacher, then FINALLY after my sophomore year i dropped out of school. =D cheers!

get some work experience, blah blah blah.... enroll in ITT... 20 years old. JOKE!.... and i mean this... ITT IS A ** JOKE. I have no respect for the school, regardless of what the document means for me. They suck... I've been to ITT in central florida, and now in louisville... Still have no ******* respect for that school. Now I stand dropped out of school debating on whether or not to go back... well, if I even can... at any rate that's my programming history, and here's me in a nutshell.
I derive my own solutions to my problems, whenever possible... but I'm not so arrogant as to think I can cure the common sense gene in most people (or lack thereof). I'm a **** most of the time but **** the world (no punn intended) any god ****ed way cuz THEY all ******* suck... ehh most of em. enough of em >=(

Now, why do I tell you guys this?... so you know who you're working with. I meant what I said, I can not promise success... but I will try.

Ok... and no, I havn't done any reading on interpretting language, because the fun in building my own programs is why I build them... however, that's a little arrogant and in my attempt in being a better person, and knowing your probably right -.-, I will do so.. when i didn't work an 11 hour shift =P (IE in the AM). Weird as it may seem, I want to be able to build this b0t on the premise that I can manipulate the structure of a language to build what I deem logical... and i can. The trick.. and no material is going to do this, is discovering what makes a person tick. Again guys, read or don't read this ****, i don't care... more or less this is a database of zany and crazy ideas for me to refer to at some point in the future for potential leads on obstacles-to-come.

Interesting idea occurred....

We are not beings OF language as I may have stated before... we were aware before we learned to speak as a race... We just don't recognize it as such within ourselves because most of us learned to speak before we really HAD any memories to speak of.

So what if we build everything INSTEAD of language first?... then use those characteristics to "learn" the language as a person would?...

this is going to be very hard ladies and gentlemen but probably mostly gentlemen cuz ladies don't show up on here all that often i've noticed O.O

And thank you panther, for participating.


btw: little list of languages I do know to date.

HTML
JavaScript
JAVA
CSS (language?)
PHP
C++
once i started on perl.... so a quick refresher and i'm probably good

Here's the deal.... THEYRE ALL THE SAME setting aside a few syntax differences (not so slight with java -.- [the devil])

Again, thanks for participating people... and especially thanks to those that have actually read all my ranting... I know i am wordy, but I have a lot of ******* thoughts, ok? but thx ^.^
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#9 WingedPanther73

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 07:15 PM

Just a head's up from my side:
I'm a mathematician who works as a programmer. My wife double-majored in history and English. I also took a variety of education courses in college. As a result, I have a distinct filter as I read your ideas. In particular, I have a vague awareness of the structure of the language of the English language via my wife, along with a strong understanding of formal languages (such as mathematics and programming languages). In addition, I've done some reading on a variety of programming topics, including genetic algorithms, neural nets, and expert systems.

I can see taking the structure of language and codifying it in a system of recursive classes (a noun-class, a verb-class, a preposition-class, a sentence class, etc, etc, etc) and tokenizing an input sentence into such a structure for later analysis. I suspect there would need to be an expert system for analysis of certain word structures (identifying past-perfect tense of a verb, for example). There would need to be a variety of properties of various words available to enable analysis. For example, while "The remote control flew out the wall." may be syntactically valid English, semantically it is nonsense (remote controls don't fly, and walls do not function as passageways).

Currently, I can see a way to attempt to build a database of meanings, and meaningful sentences, but I don't think I know enough of the theory of English to begin implementing such a thing. I would need to work with my wife to attempt to codify the rules and nuances of English. I would need an electronic dictionary that could be used as the basis of a custom database for semantic qualifications. I would need an extensive set of parsing rules for analyzing verbs.

This I see as one system. On top of this, I would expect to apply a neural network and memory system. The memory system and neural net would be needed to store a conversation and consistently reinterpret the meaning of the entire conversation as each new sentence is added.

I suspect that part of this already exists. Language translation programs need some of the language analysis tools, though not necessarily with a design oriented towards capturing semantic meaning. Other aspects of the above do not exist in a form that could be joined together. The issue I see is two-fold: The project is massive in scope, and it covers a wide variety of disciplines to get it working.
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#10 JiKeidan

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 07:08 AM

As it stands, it has come to my attention that my whole reason in posting this thread is against the house rules... so peace.
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