13 replies to this topic

[TcM]

Well to work a software developer, programming for companies etc.. do you really need Computer Studies, or in some countries Computer Science? And what other subjects do you need? Just taking a course on how to program in Java for example should suffice to find a good paying job in a company?

Thanks.

[WingedPanther]

It depends a lot on the company. I broke into a smaller company with a Masters in Math and a strong teaching background. I was hired for documentation but quickly demonstrated that I can program and was shifted into a programming job. There are other companies that would never touch me, however, without experience or a CS degree.

[Patrick]

But I think you can learn without a university degrees?
I can you can learn all this stuff from the internet.

[WingedPanther]

There are always two issues with any form of knowledge: Acquiring it and convincing others that you possess it. Acquiring knowledge can be fairly easy, given adequate resources and time. Learning the basics of programming is quite easy with access to the internet. Other items can take quite a while. If you roam around, you can find countless examples of people who have self-educated themselves into self-delusion. In math, there are countless people who believe that they have found counter-examples to Fermat's Last Theorem, have found interesting ways to factor, or have found fatal flaws in Godel's Incompleteness Theorem. This can happen when there is only partial understanding of the concepts involved, and when the concepts become advanced enough.

Separate from that is the issue of convincing others that you can actually do what you say. At my job, having a CS degree with no experience is guaranteed to keep you out of a programming job. We've been burned too many times by idiots with a piece of paper. Experience counts for more. At larger companies, if you don't have a piece of paper the HR department will never forward your resume to someone who could see your potential value.

At my company, the degrees held by the programmers are: music, CS, computer engineering, and math. Guess which person has the weakest algorithm analysis skills. Guess which one has some of the best interface design skills. We each bring different talents and specialties. I have the least practical experience, but have a lot of talent for string manipulation and database conversions, based on my math training.

One other thing to realize is that in the late 90's, at least in the US, there were a TON of people getting into CS, because it was the "hot job market". There are a lot of mediocre programmers out there, and if you want to crack into the market after the dot-com bubble burst, you have to work hard to stand out. We ignore 99% of the resumes we get, because they have no credibility.

[CygnetGames]

A lot of it depends on which companies you want to work for.

I'm doing a degree in both computer science and mathematics. When I have been looking at research jobs with defence companies, they have been interested in the fact that I'm doing maths. Talking to computer games companies, they want people doing maths and physics.
Also, I'm doing a masters degree, which makes me stand out from the crowd a little more - It's good to have something that separates you from everyone else - if only that it will make the interviewers remember you.

I would advise talking to some of the companies that you want to work for. Send them an email or phone them up. Ask them what qualifications they prefer applicants to have. You never know - you might even get the contact details of someone that you can call up when you're ready to apply for a job - it's a lot easier to get a job with a company if you know someone who works for them.

[Sionofdarkness]

That was an interesting post, WingedPanther. It is true that sometimes too little knowledge can be more dangerous than no knowledge at all.

[Sionofdarkness]

Another thing; my networking teacher once talked to us about this, how there are now an abundance of people with degrees but no real skill, not because they aren't smart, but because in the classrooms they aren't giving hands on, real experience.

[TcM]

Sionofdarkness said:

Another thing; my networking teacher once talked to us about this, how there are now an abundance of people with degrees but no real skill, not because they aren't smart, but because in the classrooms they aren't giving hands on, real experience.

Yes, I agree with that - But I have no such problem. I have got some experience with my own PC.

[CygnetGames]

Sionofdarkness said:

Another thing; my networking teacher once talked to us about this, how there are now an abundance of people with degrees but no real skill, not because they aren't smart, but because in the classrooms they aren't giving hands on, real experience.

I agree too - that's one reason I'm making my own website and flash games. I'm doing a degree in Computer Science but want some real work to put on my CV. Also, doing summer placements with companies is good - that gives you some experience of real work.

[Brann89]

I am very new to programming, have no experience at all, but thinking of it as an education and a carrier that I might want to take.

Math is not my strongest point, and my question is, to what degree do u have to be a math freak to get into graphic programming.
(btw, Im not the brightest of the bunch soo ceap the answers simple ;)

This is my first post so, Hi btw :)

[John]

To do basic programming, I would venture to say, no math is needed. But as you build more complex programs, most aspects of programming are governed by math - algebra, vectors, graphs, logic and physics [rigid body structures, projectile motion] just to name a few concepts. Computer Science used to be a branch of Mathematics...